GV2 vs SIRIUS 3RV2: Schneider vs Siemens Motor Breaker Platforms


By Abdullah Zahid
18 min read

Schneider TeSys GV2 and Siemens SIRIUS 3RV2 motor protection circuit breakers side by side for industrial panel comparison

Schneider TeSys GV2 vs Siemens SIRIUS 3RV2 Motor Breaker Comparison: Which Platform Belongs in Your Panel?

Controls engineers and panel builders reaching this comparison typically have a motor list in hand, a one-line diagram on the screen, and a decision to make about which motor protection circuit breaker platform to standardize on. The Schneider TeSys GV2 and the Siemens SIRIUS 3RV2 are the two dominant IEC motor protection circuit breaker families in Canadian industrial projects, and both are credible choices — the question is never which one is technically superior in isolation, but which one fits your architecture, your motor currents, your accessories, and your maintenance team's familiarity. This guide works through each dimension so you can make that call with confidence.

If you have already confirmed which platform fits your project, check current pricing and availability for both TeSys GV2 and SIRIUS 3RV2 at LeadTime.ca — we source and ship worldwide and can help you verify variant-specific availability before you commit to a standard.

Which Motor Breaker Platform Is Right for Your Application?

Both platforms provide integrated thermal-magnetic motor protection compliant with IEC 60947-2 and IEC 60947-4-1. The right choice depends on your motor data, your existing ecosystem, and how your panel needs to scale.

This comparison is most useful if you meet the following criteria:

  • Your motors are three-phase and you are specifying IEC-format motor protection circuit breakers with integrated short-circuit and overload protection
  • You need coordination data with contactors from either the TeSys or SIRIUS family for Type 1 or Type 2 coordination
  • Your motor currents fall within the overlapping ranges of both platforms — the GV2 covers approximately 0.1–32 A depending on frame and rating, while the 3RV2 extends that range to approximately 100 A with higher-frame variants for motors up to around 55 kW at AC 400 V
  • You are evaluating accessory density, busbar system compatibility, or panel footprint as part of a standardization or MCC modernization decision
  • Your control architecture is either Schneider EcoStruxure or Siemens TIA Portal, and ecosystem alignment matters for engineering and maintenance

If your application requires currents beyond the GV2's typical range and you need a single-family busbar and feeder architecture, the SIRIUS 3RV2 higher-frame variants will be the more direct fit. Conversely, if your motors are within common GV2 ranges and your panel is already populated with TeSys LC1D contactors, switching to 3RV2 introduces unnecessary complexity and re-coordination work.

On this page:

What TeSys GV2 and SIRIUS 3RV2 Actually Do in a Motor Starter Circuit

Both the TeSys GV2 and the SIRIUS 3RV2 are motor protection circuit breakers — devices that combine short-circuit protection, adjustable thermal overload protection, and a manual switching handle into a single compact unit. In a standard IEC direct-on-line starter, the MPCB replaces the separate fuse and bimetallic overload relay combination that older panel designs relied on. Both devices comply with IEC 60947-2 for circuit breakers and IEC 60947-4-1 for motor starters, and both carry UL and CSA listings across many variants, which matters for Canadian installations.

The practical difference is not how they protect motors — both use thermal-magnetic protection with an adjustable current setting dial — but where they live in the broader starter system. The TeSys GV2 is part of the Schneider TeSys motor starter ecosystem, designed to coordinate directly with LC1D contactors and TeSys accessories. The SIRIUS 3RV2 lives inside the Siemens SIRIUS industrial control family, pairing with SIRIUS contactors, SIRIUS busbar systems, and Siemens engineering tools. Choosing one over the other means choosing an entire accessory and coordination ecosystem, not just a breaker body.

Typical System Architecture for Each Platform

Both platforms sit at the motor feeder protection layer, upstream of the contactor and downstream of the main distribution. Understanding where each part lives helps clarify why ecosystem alignment drives the decision more than raw protection performance.

For a TeSys GV2-based starter:

  • Main distribution board or MCC incoming — feeds bus or cable to motor feeder group
  • TeSys GV2 motor circuit breaker — provides short-circuit and adjustable thermal-magnetic overload protection, manual isolation
  • Schneider TeSys LC1D contactor — switching device coordinated with GV2 for Type 1 or Type 2 coordination per TeSys coordination tables
  • Optional TeSys auxiliary contacts, shunt trip or undervoltage release — added to GV2 body for signaling, remote trip, or loss-of-voltage protection
  • Three-phase motor — sized to match GV2 current range and setting dial position

For a SIRIUS 3RV2-based starter:

  • Main distribution or MCC busbar assembly — can use SIRIUS 3RA6 or 3RV2 busbar feeder systems for group mounting
  • SIRIUS 3RV2 motor protection circuit breaker — short-circuit and adjustable thermal overload protection, current-limiting design
  • SIRIUS contactor — switching device with coordination data published for 3RV2 across the full current range
  • Optional SIRIUS auxiliary contacts, signaling modules, or communication add-ons — integrated into the SIRIUS modular accessory system
  • Three-phase motor — matched to 3RV2 frame size and current setting, including variants up to around 55 kW at AC 400 V

Where Each Platform Gets Deployed: Industries and Application Types

TeSys GV2 motor circuit breakers are most commonly found in compact machine control panels, OEM equipment, and general-purpose industrial installations where motor sizes stay within the common GV2 current range. Packaging machines, conveyor lines, small pump panels, and HVAC control panels are typical environments where GV2 is the straightforward choice, particularly when the machine builder's standard already includes TeSys contactors and Schneider PLCs.

SIRIUS 3RV2 motor protection circuit breakers are particularly well matched to larger motor control centers, distributed control systems, and plants where Siemens SIRIUS contactors and TIA Portal-based engineering define the standard. Food and beverage lines with many motor feeders, automotive assembly systems, water and wastewater pump stations with motors in the medium power range, and logistics distribution centers with Siemens-centric infrastructure are environments where 3RV2 is specified by default.

Both platforms serve discrete manufacturing, material handling, light process industries, and infrastructure applications. The industry overlap is almost complete — what differs is which brand's ecosystem already owns the panel.

Application Typical Deployment
Compact OEM machine panel, motors 0.37–7.5 kW, Schneider ecosystem TeSys GV2 with LC1D contactors, simple accessories, Schneider PLC
Large MCC with many feeders, some motors up to ~55 kW, Siemens plant SIRIUS 3RV2 higher-frame variants with SIRIUS busbar and feeder systems
Retrofit: replacing fuse and thermal relay starters, mixed-brand plant GV2 if existing gear is Schneider; 3RV2 if moving toward Siemens standard
Conveyor or pump panel, general industrial facility, no existing standard Either platform — decision driven by local distributor support and control gear alignment
Multi-site Canadian operation, desire to reduce spare SKU complexity Standardize per site on dominant brand; do not mix platforms within one MCC
High fault level feeders requiring verified coordination and breaking capacity Either platform, selected strictly from manufacturer coordination tables with specific upstream devices

Core Platform Specifications Head-to-Head

The following tables compare key decision-relevant attributes for the TeSys GV2 and SIRIUS 3RV2 platforms. All current ranges, power ratings, and feature descriptions are representative and variant-dependent — exact values require verification against current manufacturer datasheets for the specific catalog numbers in your design.

Attribute Schneider TeSys GV2 Siemens SIRIUS 3RV2
Typical current range Approx. 0.1–32 A depending on GV2 frame and rating Approx. 0.1–100 A depending on 3RV2 frame and rating
Typical motor power at 400–415 V, 3-phase Up to around low tens of kW for common GV2 variants Up to around 55 kW for higher-rated 3RV2 variants
Protection type Integrated thermal-magnetic motor protection with manual switching Integrated thermal-magnetic motor protection with manual switching
Standards compliance IEC 60947-2 / IEC 60947-4-1, UL/CSA listings for many variants IEC 60947-2 / IEC 60947-4-1, UL/CSA listings for many variants
System family pairing TeSys motor starters with LC1D contactors and accessories SIRIUS industrial control with SIRIUS contactors and accessories
Controls ecosystem EcoStruxure, TeSys motor management, Schneider PLCs and HMIs TIA Portal, SIRIUS ecosystem, Siemens PLCs and HMIs
Engineering tools Schneider selection guides and motor starter software tools Siemens TIA Selection Tool and SIRIUS planning tools
Status indication options Auxiliary contacts and signaling modules available Auxiliary contacts and signaling modules available
Canadian distribution Strong presence via electrical distributors Strong presence via Siemens partners and distributors
Relative positioning Often positioned as cost-effective, widely used motor breaker solution Often positioned as premium industrial solution within Siemens control architecture

Full technical specifications for current TeSys GV2 and SIRIUS 3RV2 variants are available on the product pages at LeadTime.ca.

Scenario Recommended Platform Primary Rationale
Compact OEM machine, Schneider PLCs and TeSys contactors already in use TeSys GV2 Adequate current range, direct coordination with LC1D, familiar accessories, good general availability
Large MCC with feeders up to ~55 kW, Siemens SIRIUS contactors, TIA Portal engineering SIRIUS 3RV2 Broader current range, SIRIUS busbar and feeder system integration, strong Siemens documentation
Retrofit of fuse and thermal relay starters, Schneider-dominant existing gear TeSys GV2 Aligns with installed contactors and control gear, reduces spare parts diversity
Retrofit, plant moving toward Siemens standard SIRIUS 3RV2 Aligns with future SIRIUS control gear and Siemens engineering tools
High fault level feeders, coordination critical Either — verify per coordination tables Select based on manufacturer coordination data with specific upstream devices, not brand preference

If your motor sizes or fault levels push beyond the common GV2 range and you need a single-family busbar architecture, confirm current SIRIUS 3RV2 availability and pricing at LeadTime.ca before finalizing your panel standard.

Accessories, Busbar Systems and Panel Density Compared

Accessory compatibility is one of the most practically important differences between these two platforms and one of the most common sources of ordering mistakes. Neither family's accessories are cross-compatible with the other — Siemens busbar systems cannot be mechanically combined with TeSys GV2 bodies, and Schneider door-mount handles and auxiliary contact blocks are not interchangeable with 3RV2 components. Engineers who have worked on both platforms confirm this is not a limitation of either design — it is simply the reality of two different mechanical and electrical architectures, and it reinforces why mixing brands within a single MCC row creates unnecessary coordination and procurement complexity.

For the TeSys GV2, the accessory range covers auxiliary contact blocks, shunt trip modules, undervoltage release modules, and door-mount rotary handles. The GV2 accessory format is widely familiar to panel builders who work with general-purpose industrial equipment, and the components are available through most electrical distributors who carry Schneider stock. Busbar and group mounting solutions exist within the TeSys system for multi-feeder applications, though the GV2 is more commonly specified in individual starter configurations rather than large busbar-based assemblies.

The SIRIUS 3RV2 accessories include a comparable range of auxiliary contacts, shunt trips, undervoltage releases, and door coupling rotary operators, with the additional advantage of integration into the SIRIUS 3RA6 and broader SIRIUS busbar and feeder system architectures. For engineers building large MCCs with many feeders, the structured modular busbar concept within the SIRIUS family is a genuine differentiator — it reduces wiring time and supports consistent, dense panel layouts. This is a recurring reason engineers in Siemens-centric plants choose 3RV2 over GV2 even when the GV2's current range would technically cover the application.

Ecosystem Integration: EcoStruxure vs TIA Portal

For most motor protection applications, both GV2 and 3RV2 provide status signaling through auxiliary contacts and optional modules — neither platform requires a connected PLC to function as a protective device. The ecosystem integration question becomes relevant when engineers need remote trip signaling, trip status indication integrated into a SCADA or HMI, or any form of fieldbus communication module on the motor feeder.

The TeSys GV2 integrates into Schneider's EcoStruxure architecture. For plants using Schneider PLCs, Schneider HMIs, and TeSys motor management, the integration path for status indication and motor monitoring follows Schneider's selection guides and software tools without requiring cross-brand engineering. The Schneider TeSys motor management system and related software tools support correct sizing and coordination documentation within that ecosystem.

The SIRIUS 3RV2 integrates into the Siemens TIA Portal and SIRIUS ecosystem. The Siemens TIA Selection Tool and SIRIUS planning tools support 3RV2 sizing, coordination verification, and documentation for plants running Siemens PLCs, drives, and HMIs. For engineers already working in TIA Portal daily, having motor protection devices that are natively documented and supported within the same engineering environment reduces design time and the risk of applying incorrect coordination assumptions.

The practical message is straightforward: if your engineering team lives in one ecosystem, choose the motor breaker platform that lives there too. The long-term cost of maintaining technical competence, spare parts inventory, and vendor relationships for two competing motor breaker platforms across the same site is rarely justified by any technical advantage one platform holds over the other within their overlapping current ranges.

Expert Verdict: Scenario-Based Recommendation Matrix

The TeSys GV2 and SIRIUS 3RV2 deliver comparable core motor protection performance when each is correctly sized and coordinated within its own ecosystem. Both comply with IEC 60947-2 and IEC 60947-4-1, both carry UL and CSA listings across many variants, and both have been deployed in Canadian industrial installations for years with well-documented track records. The performance gap between them, for motors within the GV2's current range, is not the reason to choose one over the other. The right question is not which breaker protects better — it is which platform your motors, panels, contactors, and maintenance team will live with for the next decade.

The TeSys GV2 is the lower-friction choice for OEM machine builders and general industrial panel shops whose existing bill of materials already includes TeSys LC1D contactors, Schneider PLCs, and familiar GV2 accessories. It is simple to specify, widely stocked, and well understood by panel builders across Canadian electrical distributors. Its practical current range covers the majority of small to medium motor applications without requiring larger frame variants. The SIRIUS 3RV2 earns its place in Siemens-centric plants where the broader SIRIUS ecosystem — SIRIUS contactors, SIRIUS busbar feeder systems, TIA Portal engineering tools — is already the standard. For MCCs with many feeders and motors approaching the upper end of typical industrial power ranges, the 3RV2's extended current range to approximately 100 A and its native busbar system integration offer real panel assembly and engineering advantages that the GV2 does not replicate within its standard frame range.

For procurement, both platforms are well supported through established Canadian electrical distributors — Schneider through general electrical distribution channels and Siemens through Siemens partners and industrial distributors. Pricing for specific catalog numbers requires distributor confirmation in either case, and stock levels for accessory variants can vary significantly by region and project demand. Before committing to a platform standard for a multi-feeder project or MCC modernization, confirming current availability and lead times for both the breakers and the required accessories is a step that saves rework costs later. LeadTime.ca can help engineers and buyers verify variant-specific availability, coordination data compatibility, and current lead times for both TeSys GV2 and SIRIUS 3RV2 before a purchase order is issued — check current availability and pricing for both platforms at LeadTime.ca, where we ship worldwide.

For volume pricing, project quantities, or to confirm lead times before committing to a panel standard, contact the LeadTime.ca team directly — we source and ship worldwide and work with both Schneider and Siemens product families. Contact LeadTime.ca here.

What Engineers Need to Know Before Standardizing on Either Platform

Community discussions on r/PLC, r/industrialautomation, PLCTalk, and distributor Q&A forums reveal a consistent pattern: engineers who have had problems with either GV2 or SIRIUS 3RV2 almost always trace the issue back to a selection or application error rather than a product defect. The two most frequent sources of trouble are using motor nameplate kilowatt ratings instead of full-load current to select the breaker, and mixing contactors from one brand with breakers from another without verifying coordination data. Both of these mistakes are preventable with the manufacturer's published coordination tables — but those tables are brand-specific, and assumptions about interchangeability across the TeSys and SIRIUS families have caused nuisance trips and coordination failures in the field.

Engineers reviewing the GV2 platform consistently praise its straightforward selection process, the broad availability of accessories through electrical distributors, and the familiarity factor for panel builders who have worked with Schneider gear for years. The occasional complaint about GV2 concerns confusion over exact short-circuit ratings with specific upstream protective devices — a situation that arises when engineers rely on general catalog ratings instead of looking up the specific breaker-contactor-upstream combination in the Schneider coordination documentation. This is not a GV2 weakness; it is a reminder that all MPCBs require this step.

SIRIUS 3RV2 users in Siemens-centric plants consistently report strong satisfaction with the platform's integration into SIRIUS busbar systems and the clarity of Siemens' engineering documentation. The recurring concern from engineers who work outside Siemens-dominant environments is that the 3RV2 can feel over-specified for simple standalone panels, and some note that list prices sit higher than budget-oriented alternatives. Engineers evaluating a platform switch — in either direction — report that the re-coordination work required when changing contactor families is the most significant friction point, reinforcing the core advice: align your motor breaker platform with the contactor family already in your panels, and only switch when you are also replacing the contactors.

The following checklist captures the verified prevention steps engineers should work through before finalizing any GV2 or SIRIUS 3RV2 selection. If any item cannot be confirmed from your motor data and the manufacturer's coordination documentation, that is the point to consult a specialist distributor rather than proceed on assumptions.

Installation and Wiring Considerations for Both Platforms

  • Both TeSys GV2 and SIRIUS 3RV2 units require the current setting dial to be adjusted to match the motor's full-load current before energizing — factory default settings are not application-specific and must not be left unchanged.
  • Accessories including auxiliary contacts, shunt trips, and undervoltage releases must be from the same product family as the breaker body; cross-brand mechanical integration is not supported and creates undefined coordination behavior.
  • For group mounting or busbar feeder configurations, use only the busbar and feeder components listed as compatible with the specific GV2 or 3RV2 frame size in the relevant catalog section.
  • Verify enclosure type and ambient temperature conditions against the manufacturer's derating curves before finalizing current settings — ratings listed in catalogs assume open air or standard enclosure conditions, and tightly packed MCCs in warm environments require derating.
  • Door-mount rotary handles and front-panel coupling operators for both GV2 and 3RV2 require specific mechanical depth and cutout dimensions — confirm enclosure suitability against the accessory installation datasheet before drilling.

Migrating From Fuse-Based or Thermal Relay Protection to GV2 or SIRIUS 3RV2

Retrofit projects replacing separate fuse and bimetallic overload relay combinations with integrated MPCBs are a common driver for evaluating both platforms. Engineers who have completed these migrations report improved coordination clarity, fewer spare SKUs in the storeroom, and more consistent protection across motor feeders. The transition, however, requires re-checking every motor's full-load current against the MPCB range, re-verifying coordination with upstream protective devices, and confirming that the replacement contactor is on the coordination list for the new MPCB — not just a carryover from the previous design.

Switching an installed base from one brand to the other — for example, replacing GV2 units with SIRIUS 3RV2 while keeping existing Schneider contactors — creates the highest risk of coordination errors. Each MPCB family's Type 1 and Type 2 coordination data is published for specific breaker-contactor combinations within that brand. A 3RV2 breaker paired with a TeSys contactor may not be covered by either manufacturer's published coordination data, leaving the engineer without verified protection behavior at fault conditions. The safest migration path is to replace the breaker and the contactor together and use the published coordination data for the new matched pair.

Wrong-Part Prevention Checklist for GV2 and SIRIUS 3RV2

Before finalizing any motor protection circuit breaker selection for either platform, work through every item in this checklist. These are the verified prevention steps drawn directly from the common selection errors that cause misapplication, nuisance tripping, and coordination failures in the field.

  1. Confirm motor FLC, starting method and coordination type against the breaker's current range and short-circuit rating.
  2. Match breakers to compatible contactors and overload settings within the same family for Type 1/Type 2 coordination.
  3. Check accessory and busbar compatibility; do not assume cross-brand interconnection.
  4. Verify enclosure type, ambient temperature and derating rules before selecting frame size.
  5. Ensure replacement breakers follow the same trip class and protection concept as existing devices.
  6. Confirm Canadian short-circuit ratings and approvals (CSA/UL) with upstream protective devices.
  7. Validate that any communication or indication modules are compatible with your PLC/fieldbus choice.

If your motor data, fault levels, or accessory requirements raise any uncertainty during this checklist, contact the LeadTime.ca team before ordering — we can help verify current ratings, coordination compatibility, and variant availability for both TeSys GV2 and SIRIUS 3RV2 before you commit. Reach the LeadTime.ca team here.

Frequently Asked Questions

Can I replace a TeSys GV2 with a SIRIUS 3RV2 without changing the contactor?

Not recommended without verified coordination data. Each platform's Type 1 and Type 2 coordination tables are published for specific breaker-contactor combinations within the same brand family. A SIRIUS 3RV2 paired with a TeSys LC1D contactor, or a GV2 paired with a SIRIUS contactor, may not be covered by either manufacturer's coordination documentation, leaving the protection behavior at fault conditions unverified. The safest approach is to replace the breaker and contactor together using a matched pair from the same family.

Are accessories and busbar systems interchangeable between GV2 and SIRIUS 3RV2?

No. Accessories including auxiliary contact blocks, shunt trip modules, door-mount rotary handles, and busbar feeder components are specific to each product family's mechanical interface. Schneider TeSys accessories are designed for GV2 mounting dimensions and terminal layouts; Siemens SIRIUS accessories are designed for 3RV2. Cross-brand mechanical integration is not supported by either manufacturer's documentation and should not be attempted in production panels.

Which platform covers higher motor currents in standard configurations?

The SIRIUS 3RV2 family covers a broader current range, with variants extending to approximately 100 A and motor power coverage up to around 55 kW at AC 400 V for higher-frame sizes. The TeSys GV2 range covers approximately 0.1–32 A depending on the GV2 frame and rating, which is adequate for the majority of small to medium motor applications. For applications at the upper end of both ranges, verify the specific catalog number's rating against your motor's full-load current in the current manufacturer datasheet.

How do I know whether I am achieving Type 1 or Type 2 coordination with my chosen combination?

Both Schneider and Siemens publish coordination tables that list verified Type 1 and Type 2 coordination results for specific breaker-contactor-motor combinations within their respective families. Type 2 coordination requires that after a short-circuit event, the contacts of the contactor are not welded together and the devices remain serviceable — a higher standard than Type 1. The coordination type achieved depends on the specific breaker and contactor catalog numbers, not just the families. Consult the relevant manufacturer coordination documentation for the exact combination in your design.

What should I verify to prevent nuisance tripping after installation?

The most common cause of nuisance tripping is the current setting dial not being adjusted to match the motor's actual full-load current after installation. Both GV2 and 3RV2 have adjustable thermal settings that must be set to the motor FLC — not the top of the range or a convenient round number. Additional causes include ambient temperature derating not being applied in warm enclosed panels and incorrect coordination with the upstream protective device at the panel's available fault current. Verify all three before commissioning.

Which platform is better positioned for future digitalization and motor monitoring?

Both platforms support status indication through auxiliary contacts and signaling modules, and both ecosystems have paths toward more advanced motor monitoring through their respective control architectures — EcoStruxure for TeSys GV2 and TIA Portal with SIRIUS for the 3RV2. The practical answer is the same as the core selection question: the platform best positioned for your future digitalization is the one that aligns with the PLC, HMI, and engineering tool ecosystem your team will actually maintain. Validate that any communication or indication modules you plan to use are compatible with your PLC and fieldbus before specifying them.

Why Order Through LeadTime.ca

  • LeadTime.ca sources and ships both Schneider TeSys GV2 and Siemens SIRIUS 3RV2 products worldwide — not limited to any single region or country.
  • We carry both product families and can help verify variant-specific availability, confirm whether specific accessories are in stock, and provide current lead time estimates before you commit to a platform standard.
  • For project quantities, MCC builds, or retrofit programs requiring multiple catalog numbers across both platforms, volume pricing inquiries are handled directly by the team.
  • Sourcing hard-to-find accessory variants and specific frame sizes that are not stocked locally is a common request our team handles regularly.
  • Response time for quote requests and technical sourcing questions is a priority — engineers on tight project timelines should not be waiting days for a stock confirmation.

At-a-Glance Comparison Summary

  • TeSys GV2 typical current range: approximately 0.1–32 A depending on GV2 frame and rating
  • SIRIUS 3RV2 typical current range: approximately 0.1–100 A depending on 3RV2 frame and rating, covering motors up to around 55 kW at AC 400 V for higher-frame variants
  • Both platforms comply with IEC 60947-2 and IEC 60947-4-1 and carry UL/CSA listings across many variants
  • TeSys GV2 pairs with TeSys LC1D contactors in the Schneider EcoStruxure ecosystem
  • SIRIUS 3RV2 pairs with SIRIUS contactors in the Siemens TIA Portal ecosystem
  • Accessories and busbar systems are not cross-compatible between the two families
  • Type 1 and Type 2 coordination must be verified using each manufacturer's specific coordination tables for the exact breaker-contactor combination selected
  • Canadian distribution is strong for both platforms through their respective distributor channels — confirm current stock and lead times before standardizing
  • The primary selection decision is ecosystem alignment: Schneider EcoStruxure for GV2, Siemens SIRIUS and TIA Portal for 3RV2
  • Choosing based solely on list price or brand name without checking motor FLC, fault levels, coordination, and accessory compatibility is the most common cause of misapplication for both platforms

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